Damon Cooper
Welcome to Let's Ask Better Questions. The podcast where we discuss hot school topics for parents. I'm Damon Cooper, Director of Teaching and Learning at Central Coast Grammar school. And around the table today we have Simone, whose first child started school this year and who is also a preschool educator. Tracey, who teaches Kindy. And Ros, a Junior School psychologist. Sending your child off to school is a big deal, so how do you know if they're ready? Simone?
Simone
I think when we're looking at school and school readiness with our own children, obviously there's a lot of anxiety as a parent to send your child into the great unknown. However, when we're looking at our children and seeing if they are ready, I think one of the aspects is that they're excited about school. There's something that they're looking forward to. And they've got the social and emotional abilities to work through some problems that might occur in the playground or in the classroom. Also, an ability to express their own needs and responsibility for their belongings to a degree.
I think obviously as a parent you feel much more confident if they do have some awareness of the curriculum and academic side of school – but definitely making friends and maintaining friendships and working through that side of things. Being able to learn the rules and follow instructions.
Damon Cooper
Tracey, as a kindy teacher?
Tracey
I totally agree Simone. It's really important with that term school readiness, that we look at the whole child and the development of the whole child and it's really important to look at that child as an individual. It's not just a chronological age or a particular set of skills. You need to look at the development of that whole child and measure their readiness. So, things like language skills are very important. They need to be able to articulate their needs as you said, Simone. And they need to be aware of language, to be able to communicate. And physical development is very important, particularly fine motor skills. So, being able to hold a pencil, manipulate a writing implement, have that strength and dexterity is really critical to learning how to write. Making sure that socially and emotionally they're feeling really comfortable about themselves in the world.
They're interested in people and they're wanting to be making those friendships. One of the biggest things that I think is difficult for young children, is to learn to be part of a group and to learn to wait. So, I would say physical skills, language skills and social and emotional skills, are really key to readiness.
Damon Cooper
Simone and Tracey, you both mentioned social and emotional skills. What does that look like for a parent? When we're looking at our kids, what are we looking for?
Simone
I would say just being able to be part of a group and come across problem solving, turn taking, an ability to have an awareness of others. Emotionally, I would say that to be able to self-regulate, to check in when they need to check in and be able to express that if they do need to. But also, I think with social and emotional skills, one of the best things that families can do when they are going to school is to express that. If there is a need, that they identify their child to the school and say, “Look, I'm a little bit worried about this, this might happen or occur.”
And I think that's the best thing that families can do in order to prepare their children as well, so that the family feels good about what they're doing. Because obviously, the teachers have done it for many years, so they know exactly what they're doing, but if they're a little bit aware of what the parents are worried about or what their child might be lacking in some of those social emotional areas, they know they're going to be well supported through the transition.
Tracey
I think that Simone, you've touched on something that's really important, particularly in the early years of school, that teachers and parents work in partnership with each other. It's really important that we get to know you as a family and your child and their particular individual needs, so that we can help. And If we understand what's going on for them, then that makes it a lot easier.
I think one of the things about emotional development is that we want them to be able to manage their emotions, as you said, and be able to bounce back a little bit. Having that ability to be a little bit resilient. We do teach them to be more resilient at school obviously, but just being a little bit able to bounce back from failure or mistakes and just get back on track is a lovely quality and something that we try to develop.
I think it's really important that they have an ability to focus on tasks. I mean, that's what school is about - learning - and we do spend periods of time focusing on different activities and tasks. And being able to follow directions and also maybe, coping with stress. I mean it is quite a stressful transition to school, from preschool or home. So just being able to cope with that stress is something that will help them be ready to cope.
Simone
One of the things that I noticed when Bailey started school was, when he started, there were a lot of different rules that he had to learn, just because it was a different environment. So, taking on that adaptable approach. I turned up one day and he was running. I was like, "Oh, you can't run on the concrete here." And he goes, "That's okay, I can run on the grass." I was like, "Oh, not on the grass until recess time." And then taking that on and being like, “Oh, okay”. Just relearning all those little rules. I think it’s a little bit about being able to be adaptable in that area.
Damon Cooper
And that's really interesting that you bring up that difference between home and school. They're such different worlds for these little people. What are some of the things that we can do to help get our kids ready for that new world that they're going to face?
Ros
I think the more independence you can foster in your children is very, very helpful. So, I don't think that starts a couple of weeks before school either. I think it starts the year before school, so they need to learn how to start to dress themselves, to pack their bags, hopefully organise some of their things as well. Giving them some small responsibilities around the home, and perhaps praising or giving positive rewards for those, can all foster that independence that we need.
And of course, for some children, the visual, a little list in their room, is helpful. For, how do I get ready in the morning, what do I do when I get up? So, you might use some pictures, you could even take photos of your child cleaning their teeth, getting their clothes on, having their breakfast, packing their bag and so on. So the more independent skills you can focus on, I think is very, very helpful for school readiness.
Tracey
That's great advice. Thank you, Ros. But I think the other thing that's really important too is for parents to have faith in the school that they have chosen for their children, to trust the teachers and to be openly transferring that faith and trust with their children, so their children don't feel anxious. They feel very comfortable that mum and dad are really happy with the choice that they're making, that they're happy about where I'm going and what I'm doing. And I think that gives children a lot of security.
And I think the other thing too is not to make it out to be a big thing, like ‘big school’. I think it's really important just to say that you're going to school, as opposed to big school, and not making it out to be something bigger than it already is.
Damon Cooper
Do children need to read and write before they begin school?
Tracey
No, they don't. It's a misconception that they do, and I think it's really important. We've talked about how it's the whole development of the child that is really important. Children need to be read to from an early age and they love having adults read to them. I started reading to my children when they were babies. They need to understand the concepts of print. They need to understand that language is beautiful, and vocabulary is amazing and that words can rhyme - things like that are really, really important for children. So, the Dr Seuss books are just amazing.
They do not need to know how to write. They do not need to know how to read. We will teach them that and they learn it really, really quickly when they are ready. What is important perhaps, is that they can recognise their own name, that they perhaps might be able to write their own name or at the very least maybe write the first letter or identify the first letter. So, they need to have that understanding of sounds, and we do so much work that prepares them, and what they can do at the end of kindergarten is absolutely amazing, with reading and writing.
So, there is no pressure or expectation on parents to teach their children to read and write. You can leave that job up to your kindergarten teachers and hopefully we will do it really well and you'll be surprised at what they can do at the end of the year. It's a good idea also, for families just to be playing games with their children so they're learning numbers. Counting and those sorts of things are really helpful for number recognition and just awareness and then the rest falls into place at school.
Simone
I think allowing your child to go through that process in their own time and knowing that, coming towards the end of kindergarten, they've all found their place and they're well supported through that process. Obviously before school, preschools do a lot of singing and reading for the children as well and having the ability to have maybe a pencil case available for your child to do some mark making or drawing just to engage. But that reading concept is really important. If you can read to your child every night, it just creates the understanding that words have meaning, and text has meaning and that sort of connects in school when they start to really learn how to put it all together.
Ros
They can turn the pages right to left. Just simple things. Also, if there's pictures in the book, ask them what they can see in the picture. Ask them questions about the story and the picture, how it relates. Those sorts of things are really good early comprehension skills too.
Damon Cooper
However, alongside that excitement, often sits some anxiety for the kids and for the parents. Given a little bit of anxiety can be a healthy thing, how do we support the kids in getting into the right head space for school?
Ros
What I really think was key to what you asked there in the question Damon was, there's some anxiety certainly with the children but of course also with parents. And so I think I'll talk maybe from the parent's point of view and maybe Tracey and Simone can pick up on some of the comments for anxiety in the children. But in terms of parents, sometimes you've got to hide that anxiety.
You are going to be quite nervous, especially maybe if it's your first one. I think the kindergarten orientation sessions we run, and most schools run, are very, very helpful. Because you get to drop them off, they get to separate from you as a parent. They are doing school-based things for several hours and then you come back. Knowing that you're going to come back is quite critical for them. I remember hearing a mum one morning saying, when the child was clinging to her, “I think you'll be okay”. It's not, “I think you'll be okay” – “you will be okay”. And that's to do with that trust you were talking about Tracey. So that's really important.
It's really important not to stay around because of maybe your anxiety or your child's anxiety. So understand that when you drop them off, you give them a kiss, you give them a cuddle. Maybe you want to reiterate the afternoon pickup arrangements and that you'll be back. And then you disappear. Yep, you'll probably cry and that's perfectly normal, especially on day one.
Tracey
Can I pick up on what Ros said about our orientation program? Because I think Ros is right and that all schools run orientation programs or head start programs as they're known in some schools. We have five orientation sessions and the idea is that the students get to know the school and that the teachers get to know the students. And it is a really lovely way to transition to that next school year.
And we can sometimes be observing children and letting parents know little things that they might be able to work on in the holidays before their children start in the new year. It might be something like cutting skills - these days sometimes children don't get to cut with scissors and it's really, really important that they've got those fine motor skills. It might be a pencil grip, or “Make sure that you encourage your children to hold the pencil this way”. And just those sorts of little things can be helpful for the start of the new year.
And I think the students get to know the surroundings. We take them on treasure hunts around the school, so they get to know the different parts of the school and they become familiar with the staff and the classrooms and each other. And I think it's a really lovely starting point.
Simone
I think as a parent, as well, the orientation process is a real eyeopener because you realise that they're not going straight into sitting at a desk and doing formal learning. They're going into an environment where they're slowly learning these different rules and the different things that they are going to be doing for the next year. And even when you do start, it is that shorter day and they don't do the formal learning straight away.
So, as a parent I was expecting a whole lot of homework. I think I wrote in the diary that I was expecting homework this week, but nothing came home. And I was all prepared for that. But actually, it took a couple of weeks and it was a really gradual process for them to start to get into that kind of thing. So, it's not just a cut and dry, okay, now you're at school, you're going to be doing formal learning and sitting down and these are going to have to be your abilities.
It's a slower transition than that. There are a lot of small group times and play based scenarios such as the treasure hunt that the children get to explore, before they do have to sit down and listen.
Tracey
And even in the new year when we start, kindergarten is very much, using play as an effective means of learning. Children learn best through play, and I think the longer that they can do that, the better it's going to be for them. And I love those moments where they just, the penny drops and they get it, and it's through a game. And that's something I would recommend for parents to do at home when helping their children get ready for school, is play lots of games, play board games, play card games, all those sorts of things are so helpful in not only learning numbers but turn-taking, losing, not winning - learning about not winning is really important in life.
In this day and age, when every child has got a device and they love that instant feedback of an iPad or that type of computer generated game, I think those old fashioned games that families play can be so, so useful in helping children be ready for school.
Damon Cooper
Tracey you mentioned earlier, not every child is going to be at exactly the same place when they start school. What are some of the messages that you have that might give parents confidence that their child is ready?Now's the time.
Tracey
I think the most important thing to remember is that every child is unique, Damon, and that particularly children all develop at a different rate. And Ros I think will help me with this, that it's not a set timeframe. And I think that's the difficulty in talking about readiness for school, because what readiness looks like for one particular child may look completely different to another child. Their ages could be completely different. And I don't think we can have a blanket way of looking at them.
But I think that orientation programs help us to look at individual children and to chat with parents if we have any concerns. And then that's the perfect opportunity to get the ball rolling. It might be speech therapy. It might be occupational therapy. There might be different things that different particular children may need and we can get that ball rolling before they start school and give them the perfect chance to reach their potential when they do start.
Ros
And Damon, as a school psychologist, one of our roles is that we do go and observe children at orientation. We talk to the teachers afterwards about any issues that they noticed with some children and also, sometimes contact the parents before school starts.
Sometimes occasionally you will find, and we have found at our school, that there are some children who are not ready and it's quite obvious to us who see lots and lots of kids go through, and we'll make a time with the parents and talk through the pros and cons of that from their point of view. So that can be quite helpful.
The other thing is that the preschool educators, such as Simone, are fantastic. They often contact us when they know which school their kids are going to and talk to us about particular needs that the child has, so that child will be kind of someone we particularly observe at orientation. It's such an excellent strategy for us to have and of course, down the track, if children are having issues later in kindergarten, we really need to give them time to settle in. We certainly don't rush in and refer them to someone like me in those first few weeks. That would be just ridiculous.
However, if there are concerns later, as a parent, the best thing to do is go and talk to your teacher about what you're worrying about. Like, “After two terms my child is still having trouble separating from me”. Sometimes it's just me talking to the teacher about it ... or meeting with the parent or sometimes meeting with the child as well.
Damon Cooper
Simone, you mentioned that the early years framework at a preschool does really set the groundwork for coming to kindergarten. What are some of the big differences between preschool and a kindergarten classroom?
Simone
It is definitely more formal in a primary school classroom, but one of the biggest things I would say is the ratio, the teacher to child ratio. And that's probably one of the things that the children will notice most, is that they can't all grab the teacher's attention at one time. So, they do need to take on that turn taking. Also, that kind of free flow of the day, for instance, if the childcare centre does have a freer flow of recess and lunchtime. There is a particular time of day at primary school where you sit down, and you eat your recess and then there's time to go and play.
I know, as a parent, sometimes you get the lunchbox home and they haven't really eaten much. But those are the days where you have some ‘afternoon’ ready for them, and it's usually because they've been so social and making friendships and you've got to take the positives out of that as well. So, I think that's probably the biggest difference.
Damon Cooper
As we wrap up, are there any last insights you'd like to share?
Ros
Well, I guess the last one that I might talk about is expanding a little bit on the role of a school psychologist, some of the areas that we do get engaged in, and how we talk to the teachers about these concerns. If you've already spoken to your teacher, there could have been a grief incident in your family and your child is very distressed about that. Some sort of trauma that might be happening.
Sometimes it’s children's behaviour we need to talk about with parents. It might be their child's behaviour, but also the way that it's impacting on other children's learning. And sometimes we have to have those harder conversations with parents, especially if it's perhaps their first child or their oldest child, that perhaps (this behaviour) isn't what we expect as a normal part of development.
So, we certainly come across that from time to time. Sometimes it's parenting even. Some parents get very upset that a child reaches a certain age and they need some more pointers towards parenting, in how they can get their child to school on time. Some kids say, “I don't want to go to school”. For some kids that can be hard.
Simone
I would say have fun with it. Enjoy all the moments, celebrate all the good things and be there to listen for the things that the children are struggling with. Talk to your teacher when you need to and know that they're in really good hands and trust the professionals.
Tracey
And I'm going to say two things. I think what's really, really important, and that I think has come out of today, is that we as professionals, really want your child to reach their full potential. We want them to thrive in their first year of school and we will be working very closely with parents and our school body, to make sure that that year is a really lovely first year for them, and that they can create a life-long love of learning.
And the second thing I wanted to finish off with was, this morning I was explaining to my class why I wouldn't be with them this afternoon and that I was coming to talk about school readiness. I asked them. I threw it open to them and said, "What do you think is really important? How can you be ready for school? What is school readiness?" And their responses were amazing. Things like, “You need to know your manners and you need to make sure that you wait your turn on the flying fox and you need to make sure that you keep your hands and your feet to yourself”.
It was absolutely lovely. All the responses were about social skills and I thought that was really interesting, coming from 23 little five-and-six-year olds, that this was what they thought was important for survival and coping and having a great first year of kindergarten.
Damon Cooper
From our conversation, it's really clear that relationships are the key. My takeaway from what you've said is that we are here for your kids with you, so we help them into kindergarten by doing it together.
Thanks very much for your time today, Simone, Tracey and Ros. And thank you for listening to this episode of Let's Ask Better Questions. Never miss an episode by subscribing or by heading to our website at, ccgs.nsw.edu.au.